Here’s a fun idea: how about no more presidents?
Very fun idea, I’d like that. Counterpoint: how do we accomplish that?
Wish I knew honestly. Vote for radical change makers and/or build dual power. But it’s not going to be easy.
Trump got elected twice because the Democratic party kept nominating corrupt, evil people who were buddies with Dick Cheney.
If all it takes to justify a dictator despot is framing the opposition as being in any way that is corrupt and evil, even if somewhat justified, then the electoral system has already lost. That’s Orban’s playbook, too. Funny how the people who usually do this don’t tend to employ the same clear cut terms for the actual dictator despot.
If the democrats had nominated Bernie Sanders in 2016, then Trump would have never happened.
Nominating evil losers like Clinton or Harris leads to election losses.
Good thing it lies in the theoretical so you don’t have to bother pointing out anything corrupt or evil about him, huh. Although at the time, he was also demonized considerably. He’s a great safe spot for propaganda what-ifs, since he’s unlikely to ever be mainstreamed by democrats, but having said that your comment still sounds astoundingly naive because of its suggestion that even in 2016 elections weren’t being manipulated.
That’s the biggest problem with your comments, that you try to portray the candidates as the cause when it is a significant part of the system, from the gerrymandering, to the social network manipulation, to the purchase and control of local and regional media networks in the districts that mattered, to the lobbyists financing, contributing, and sabotaging for their candidates, all to place the labels of “evil”, “corrupt”, “loser” to candidates several orders of magnitude less than the current candidate.
It cannot serve any other purpose to misinform and disarm opposition by eliminating the possibility of any step by step solution over the “we must choose the sacrosanct most virtuous god emperor to save us!” I frankly think you’d be tooting Bernie Sanders flaws if he was more likely to be mainlined into a candidate, because yes, he’s been the better candidate for a while even if the process will not make him electable. Doesn’t mean that there aren’t better alternatives to dictator despot, but no matter how evil, how inhumane, how despicable Trump is, I suspect your conditions will always be placed in such a way as throw insults and discourage support of the clearly flawed but still nowhere as bad alternative. Forgive me if I’m wrong, but regardless I still thank your efforts because it does eventually push for much needed candidates like Zelenski in Ukraine to be voted in, although the US seems a bit hopeless in this regard so much so that state secession seems like a solution it might need to resort to.
Look, if you nominate bad candidates, you’ll get bad electoral results. Anyone who wasn’t a complete moron (or corrupt) could see that Democrats lost the recent elections due to the bad choices in the candidates they nominated.
Implying that the dictator despot convict scammer wasn’t a worse candidate. The world you preach is as simplistic as the words you like to throw around.
Did I say Trump was better? Trump is pure evil.
But if you want to win elections, then you need to nominate popular candidates. It is as simple as that. You can’t nominate horrible candidates and expect to win.
Sort of like how Biden lost in 2020. Your world view is simplistic and so are you, and that’s assuming the best possibility.
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How can we vote with Russia amping up its Voter Interference Beam and Disinformation Ray?
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Even if you did, because someone else who we see as undesirables we will never lift a finger for occasionally murdee for fun or because theyre getting uppity but broadly half tolerate most of the time because theyre fucking stupid enough to vote for us a lot of the time didn’t vote for them this time, because they were holding out for an option that does not endorse their family being murdered with their (and your) tax dollars .
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I don’t pay taxes.
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No you’ll catch
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That’s the definition of democracy, yes.
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By this logic, 1920s German Jews were responsible for Hitler.
Nope, Germans who voted for Hitler are responsible for Hitler.
So, you agree then that Trump is a result of Trump voters?
And you agree that nonvoters did nothing to secure the Trump presidency?
Liberals have no answers for the current political crisis. And instead of caving to that reality and showing some humility, they’ll try to rally the troops to “VoTe BlUe nO MaTtEr wHo” as if the Democratic party signifies all good with politics, while Republicans signify all bad.
A lot of these people don’t have the political science education or distrust in the current party to be able to see the Democratic party for what it is: controlled opposition.
Why do liberals think Bernie Sanders and AOC are leaders in the party that draw so much attention? It’s not because of some focus group. It’s because of the anti-rich world view both candidates hold.
Per usual, a Leftist means being right too soon.
VoTe BlUe nO MaTtEr wHo"
We should as a last resort.
The meme has a point. As leftist we haven’t done much to primary dems, nor to make a separate party. This leaves us having to pick for the lest bad option.
Its a big unforced error to ignore elections.
Never said to ignore elections. Stop with this strawman ultra Leftist bullshit
Never said to ignore elections.
Lot of our fellow lefties on lemmy do. Stick around and you will see the “you think you can vote your way out”.
I wouldn’t say elections will solve everything, but we keep neglecting it as a form of organization to our own detriment.
When are Dems&Reps going to stop killing us?
You may have missed some information here.
Btw, @Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com this is a case in point of what I was referring to. @AntiBullyRanger@ani.social is in one of the lefties that is saying we should ignore voting. They are not wrong that the dems don’t represent us, but they are also not willing to show up to primaries to move them as left as possible, nor will they likely be interested in splitting. I’d like to be wrong, but it is all to common on lemmy.
Which means the meme will hold and we will still be left with no influence for another election cycle. Its a massive unforced error to ignore elections. They are not the end all be all, but they will add credibility to our movement. Being able to get millions of followers to show up one day to tick some lines on a paper means you are also able to get them to organize in other ways too. We only hurt our own credibility and presence in peoples minds. As our own party or subsection of the dems (like the tea party of sorts) it does not matter; tho it would be nice to be our own faction.
So, you want to bomb us again?
How many more McCarthyism do you need to comprehend your electors are bought and paid for?Bro if you can’t be bothered to vote I have no confidence you will show up to back me up with a rifle.
As leftist we haven’t done much to primary dems
In fairness, the party opposes primary challengers from the left (and only the left. They didn’t protect Cori Bush or Jamaal Bowman like they protected Henry Cuellar) much harder than they have ever opposed fascism.
In fairness, the party opposes primary challengers from the left
True, but that doesn’t mean we should roll over because there is opposition. We should keep trying to primary. And we should build out as much of an independent party as we can.
It is our movement. We are the ones building it. And we should have done more of this decades ago.
True, but that doesn’t mean we should roll over because there is opposition.
It also doesn’t mean there’s been a lack of trying.
Sure, but our modern fellow lefties do discourage trying.
For example in this thread @AntiBullyRanger@ani.social was asking why we no longer have a black panther party all while telling me all the reasons why they are not interested in showing up to vote.
Engaging in elections is still one way we can engage in the public space and start to make some changes in a favorable direction. We can’t keep wondering why electoralism is not in our favor if we are also not even trying.
Like i said in the other side of the thread; if you can get your supporters to show up and vote you have credibility to mobilize for other things.
Since your Nazi instance banned me in that community, look at what fascists are doing this election too.
look at what fascists are doing this election too.
And your take is to just step out of their way? Strange resistance, but lmk how that works out for your company captain.
So now you’re just going to lie about me?
You’re aware @Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world upvoted&read our entire conversation the other day, right?
Ensign_Crab knows your entire government keeps massacring us, without giving us the opportunities to play in first past the post politics.
But sincing lying will be your praxis moving forward, I will definitely make an appointment to your voting district now.
Hey so its actually that we have 2 years to uplift leftwing ideals until the general election, at which point we vote for the candidate who wants to bring the Torment Nexus levels down a little so that the Candidate who wants to double the Torment Nexus loses and we have a few years of lower torment while we uplift leftwing ideals again.
To clarify: not lower than now, both candidates want a torment nexus, but one wanrs to build it faster and not worry aboyt whether the orphan bones are fair trade.
Hang on there, because with some issues, they do want to reduce the torment below current levels, and i think that should matter
reduce it below
Citation needed.
Most libs want to provide free healthcare and fight climate change. Both items would reduce harm and suffering and genocide* domestically and abroad. *inequities health outcomes are tantamount to genocide; climate change also has genocidal effects
